7. The Arranging and Handling of Joint Interviews

The whole question of joint interviews needs to be con­sidered in relationship with two important facts—first, that nearly all marital disorders have very strong emotional com­ponents which by their very nature tend to take control of any discussions and to divert them from any "reasonable" path; and second, that the counselor will be carrying out with the partners something that they may have already tried many times without him, and generally failed to solve their conflicts in doing so.

But the presence of the counselor introduces a very influen­tial element into any such discussion. Each partner will uncon­sciously as well as consciously relate his attitudes to the counselor in one way or another. He may try to win the counselor's emotional support, and he may well restrain him­self from many obviously absurd accusations which he might have made otherwise. From another point of view the coun­selor brings what can be a vital influence into such joint dis­cussions in that if, say, a husband is deeply hurt in the coun­selor's presence, the humiliation may put him so much on the defensive that he might not feel able to go on in any but a superficial manner with further counseling.

It seems clear therefore that joint interviews need careful consideration and even more careful and tactful handling if the dangers of excessive wounding on the one hand or of loss of rapport on the other are to be minimized.

In some cases the two partners come together for the first appointment, and it may be helpful to consider some of the possible meanings of this action. As we have seen previously it may mean that they have a mutual willingness to look for a way through their difficulties, and are not aware of any great emotional conflict between them. In other cases they come to­gether because they have the idea that this would be expected of them.

There may however be some deeper reasons for their coming together. For example there may be in one or both of them a deep suspicion that the first one to be interviewed may gain some advantage by "getting in first," which suggests their idea that the counselor is going to act as a kind of judge. There may be a desire to "answer" all criticisms and accusations the moment they are made, coupled with a fear of being dis­cussed "behind their backs."

In most cases when the two partners come together for the initial appointment the counselor will have them both in for the beginning of the interview, and will observe them closely while he is listening to whoever is doing the talking. When there is any indication of emotional tension in one or both, either outwardly expressed or less directly conveyed by sitting silently and looking away from the counselor and the partner, the counselor will generally suggest that it is mostly easier for people to talk freely in the absence of other people, and offer them the opportunity for individual interviews. When put in this way the offer is usually accepted, and it is either left to the partners to decide who shall be first, or the counselor suggests that the one who seems to be least anxious to talk might have the first opportunity. In many cases this person has been a bit overwhelmed by the more active partner, and if sent out may feel even more crushed.

If one of the partners has more difficulty in arranging con­venient times for appointments it may be right to have that one in first, and in such cases the partners will often suggest that themselves. But in all cases when both partners come for the first appointment each of them should be given some time alone with the counselor, even if with the second partner it is only a short session which shows acceptance of some feelings and sets the stage for another fuller session within a short time. In this way neither partner is so likely to feel frustrated after summoning up quite a lot of will power to make the initial approach to the counselor. This first contact is, as we have seen, of the greatest importance as the foundation of the coun­seling relationship.

This section is concerned, however, mainly with the joint interviews which might be arranged by the counselor at some appropriate point in the series of interviews. There are two main reasons for his wishing to arrange such joint interviews. The first of these is when one or both clients tend to con­centrate mainly on the objectionable attitudes and the mis­deeds of the other, and seem unable or unwilling to face their own contributions to the disorder. If the counselor just goes on allowing them to talk about their grievances in this way the counseling may well reach a point of "stalemate," unless their unburdening can go on well enough and for long enough for them to gain adequate insight. When this doesn't seem to be possible it may be tempting for the counselor to bring up some point offered by the other one, for example, "Your wife seems to feel rather upset by what she thinks is your cruelty to her." A common answer to such a statement is, "She's exag­gerating that, I'm not cruel at all." What is the counselor to do then? Is he to take it up with the wife next time, and say, "Your husband thinks you're exaggerating," which would not be of any help to her or to the counseling because she would deny his remarks with indignation. The counselor cannot be­come a "tale bearer" without doing a lot of possible harm to the counseling.

When each client persists with accounts of the other's mis­deeds and doesn't face any of his own it often helps to seek a joint interview, first asking the consent of each of them, and then asking whether each one would be able to bring up any matters which are distressing them. There are certain essen­tial conditions of successful joint interviews which will be dis­cussed shortly, and when these are fulfilled the counselor may find such an interview very helpful.

Suppose in this joint interview "Mary" brings up her con­cern at "John's" cruelty. John may then accuse her of exaggera­tion, and Mary will then say something like this: "But you remember on such and such an occasion when you got really mad with me and you grabbed me by the neck and nearly choked me. I still don't think you realize how you scared and hurt me in your raging temper!"

In many such cases John might try to interrupt Mary's ac­count of something that he feels threatening to him, as he would have done in all of their previous attempts to discuss it with each other. But on this occasion the counselor can help each of them to get a good hearing by waggling a finger in this case at John, and saying, "Let her have her say, John, and then you can have the floor!" In this kind of manner he can keep the discussion from being swamped by the emotional com­ponents in the disorder.

Under such good-natured control the particular grievance will be hammered out to some kind of mutual agreement, and then thecounselor, who has shown full acceptance of the atti tildes and behavior of each of them, can take up any such mat­ter with the partner concerned in a subsequent individual interview. For example he might say to "John," "What about those outbursts of cruelty that Mary brought up when you were both here last time? What sort of thing gets in your hair to stir you up in that way?"

From this point the counselor may be able to work with John backwards towards any frustrated role expectations, his habitual attitudes and responses, his uncritical assumptions, emotional needs and their frustrations, and also his childhood experiences with parents and others which might well provide him with the clues to the violent reactions which perplexed him as much as they upset his wife.

Properly handled, such joint interviews can make the rest of the counseling move ahead in such cases as these, by bring­ing many important areas of conflict on to the "agenda."

A second and generally later reason for joint interviewing is that when each partner has achieved reasonable insight it still may be a valuable way of clearing up many matters of mutual involvement, or offering appropriate information ap­plicable to both of them, about some of the principles of personal relationships. These may be termed "mediational in­terviews," as distinct from the "clarifying joint interviews" already discussed. There will not generally be as much emo­tional inter-relationship or interaction in the mediational inter­views as in the clarifying ones, and there will be more constructive and practical discussion.

At this point it is necessary to formulate the main condi­tions which need to be satisfied if a joint interview is to have the best chance of succeeding. It goes without saying that the willingness of both partners is necessary, and the additional willingness of each of them to bring up any matters which concern them is advisable. But there are some other quite impor­tant conditions.

From what has been discussed so far it seems clear that any joint interview is more likely to be helpful if it is left until the emotional tensions have largely subsided. If things become so heated in any joint interview as to be likely to hurt or humili­ate either partner too greatly it may be wise for the counselor tactfully to terminate it, either by stopping the whole interview with a sympathetic gesture to each partner, or by suggesting that one of the partners retires for a time and the other (possibly the more hostile one) carry on with an individual interview in which he is encouraged to unburden his intense feeling.

So that the emotional tensions may have a chance of sub­siding before any joint interview it is generally wise to have at least two or three individual interviews with each partner before arranging it. Another condition, more difficult to carry out in many cases, is that the counselor should have reasonably comparable rapport with each of the partners. If this is not achieved it is likely that the partner with whom there is less rapport will feel ill at ease and even "odd man out," and that may well do more harm than good. In such cases a more in­tensive counseling with the partner with less rapport may be very helpful.

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